Friday, March 18, 2011

The WESTINGHOUSE "tank", 1905-1911

Last update 3-11-15 (Instruction sheet at end of page)

Style No. 80421, two speed tank c.1908-09.  Paint is all original.




A popular and widely available early fan is the Westinghouse "tank" fan, so named most likely as they are "built like a tank" or do look as if they are so built. Squat, sturdy, heavy, nice lines, and made of cast iron and brass, you will find that tanks pretty much all look alike but that there are a good number of small variations made during their seven years of production from 1905-1911.  The "tank" is also a relative affordable early fan which you should be able to find in the $100 to $300 range for AC models.

From a 1906 Westinghouse catalog


Tanks were made in 12" and 16" sizes, for AC or DC current, and with  two or three speeds.  All tanks APPEAR to have three speeds, however only DC tanks are three speeds along with one Style Nos. 83239 and 83241 of the AC tank.  From the beginning AC tanks were two speeds with the switch having two contacts bridged together, usually on the top of the contacts and visible through the switch opening in the top of the base- contacts 2 and 3 are bridged, below, left but hard to see.  I have an early 16" tank from c.1905 with a single speed where all three speed contacts are bridged together (right, below).  Did Westinghouse believe that their 16" fan could not restart itself on low speed should the power be interrupted so made it so there was, effectively, no low speed on this early model?    All AC Westy tanks use a centrifugal starting switch to engage the start windings.  If the fan was unable to start on low speed the start windings could burn out.













Enlarging the photo, above left, you can just see the copper strip that connects the second and third switch contact together.  All AC tanks except for one later Style No. have bridged contacts on their switch which is what makes them two speed fans in spite of the switch seemingly having three speeds.  On the right photo, above, you can see that all three of the visible contacts are bridged together with a copper strip.  This is what makes this early 1905 16" tank a single speed and the only single speed tank I know of as well as being the only known "small motor" early 16" tank.


Westinghouse's first production fan, made in significant numbers 
and not too dificult to find today, was their "Tesla" model shown above and made 
from 1896 through 1902 



The Tesla was followed in 1903-04 by the hard to find Westinghouse "pancake", above.  Like most pancake fans the motor is large in diameter but thin, and has a single bearing.




The new 1905 Westinghouse fans first appeared in a short-lived series of "Style Numbers" as listed to the right in a 1905 catalog and which would be replaced by an improved model with a new series of Style Nos. believed to have been introduced later in 1905 or in 1906.  The first tanks differed in many subtle ways from the later tanks:  A slightly smaller motor, different struts, no square bosses on the motor where the struts mount to,  a cast hub blade, no cage badge, no fiber cover over the bottom of the switch, an unreinforced trunnion with other design differences and, probably, some other minor differences without taking into account any changes inside the motor.  Still, looking at a very early tank it can be hard to see that there are so many differences from later tanks.  Changes continued for the duration of manufacture of the Westy tank but, basically, they all appear alike at a casual glance.









To the right are a series of photos of what is probably a 1905 tank, 16" size, Style 60679.  Though this particular tank has the early "small motor" and is the only 16" tank I know of with the small motor, it's still a later Style Number than shown in the Price List illustrated above wherein that earliest of 16" tanks would be a Style No. 46972 for the most common 60 cycles and 110 volts.  It may be presumed that Westinghouse made some important changes in the motors from the earliest Style Numbers to this later Style 60679 and it's companion 60677 12" model.  These Style Nos. lasted until the end of tank production in 1911 and are the most common of the tank Styles.


The rear view of the early "small motor" shows the difference from the later and common "large motor" tanks as shown in the photo directly below.  The vent holes are slightly larger, the solid area on the outside of the holes is narrower than on the usual tanks.  Note that the back of the rear bearing is painted black just like the rest of the motor.  It is common to find much of the paint worn off the back of the rear bearing housing from rubbing against a wall or other surface.  All black is the way they were when new.

The photo below, left, is an early "big motor' 12" tank and give an idea of the difference between the motor vent holes on the "small motor" above and the "big motor".  Also, better seen when you enlarge the photo by clicking on it, can be seen the early strut design without the large reinforcing rib on the outside of the trunnion added in 1906 or 07.  The motor in this photo is sitting backwards in the strut and the tilt thumbscrew is missing.
The photo to the right, below, shows the unique struts used on the small motor tanks.  The motor end of the strut conforms to the curvature of the front of the motor.  The later big motor tanks had squarish bosses on the front of the motor where the new style of struts mated up to.  The reinforced yoke on the big motors went through another change in the areas where the motor was mounted to the yoke.  The tilt adjusting thumbscrew was threaded into an enlarged flat area on the new; on the old it had a separate small round boss.





Another couple of photos to the right showing the early struts and how they mate up to the front of the motor.  Used only on the small motor tanks for 1905 it is presumed from the small number of small motor tanks that have been seen.





Left: A page from a 1909 Westinghouse catalog listing the different Style Numbers available in their AC fan line for that year.

In addition to the old standby Styles 60677 and 60679 that were designed for 100-110 volts, new Style Nos. 80421 and 80422 had been added c.1907 and designed to operate on 111-120 volts.  Other than the voltage differences there is nothing to differentiate between the two Styles.

New for 1909, I believe, were two THREE SPEED 12" and 16" tanks, Styles 83329 and 83421, rated for 112-115 volts.




Finish of brass parts on Westinghouse tanks seems to have been constant through the years of developement.  The 1910 issue of Electrical Review and Western Electrician on p. 561 says "the blades are finished in polished and lacquered brass, and the guard in dipped and lacquered brass".  This is consistent with what I have observed.  Highly polished brass blades but a soft finish to the guard.  What the guard was "dipped" into I can only guess.  Was it some kind of acid to clean the natural brass or was it a gold paint of some sort? Before you start to polish up your new Westy tank take note of this.  You might want to leave the cage unpolished but cleaned.  That is how the tank pictured at the top of this post was done and I think it looks very nice.  Unfortunately I do not have a good feeling of what the fan looked like before the brass was cleaned with "Soy Gel" stripper by the ebay seller.  The wife said the brass was painted green.  The husband said, no, it wasn't.  Perhaps it was just quite dirty and with some greenish tarnish on the brass.  It came to me all clean after which I polished the blades better with Wenol All-Purpose Metal Polish.


WESTINGHOUSE DC TANKS- a comparison to the AC tank.

I know little about these obscure and rare DC tanks but just acquired my first one, an early, c.1906 12" Style 60673.  I present some photos here of the motor and base which show the details better than after I attach the cage, blade, and struts.  The AC tank is a c.1909 model as pictured at the top of this blog.







Westinghouse's DC tank fan motors are exceptionally plain with no vent holes in the motor.  The only opening is in the rear where the wires to the brushes exit the motor in front of the rear oil cup.  There are no brass acorn nuts like the AC motor has.






In the photos to the right (front view at the top and rear view at bottom) you can see that the profile of the lower part of the base is different.  Both of these are 12" fans, the base on the left is of the later and more common style while the DC tank has the earlier flatter base seen, probably, on the 1905 and 06 Westy tanks.  I think it was 1907 when the "taller" base was first used.  16" tanks used the same base, larger than the 12' fans, for the whole time of manufacture.  The 16" base more nearly resembles the early style base.








Later motor tags with the 1906 patent date as above, left, are attached to the motor with fillister head screws while the earlier 1893 patent tags are riveted to the motor; you may see some exceptions to this general rule however.  Note that the DC tank motor tag, above, right, does not have patent dates.  The tag below is from the earliest of tanks, the 1905 Style 46970 with the small motor.  From observations it appears that the first tanks to have the 1906 patent motor tag was no earlier than the 1907 model.

Westinghouse "tanks", year to year:
Changes through the years were many but the last tank still looked very close to the first one.  Outlined here are changes from my observations and from other sources.  It is not easy to pin down certain changes so I have made an estimated guess on some details.  If readers have anything to add or correct please leave a comment or contact me.
For the time being please realize that there might have been some overlap in features in some years and some of the details, below, could be off a year or two.  I'll be working to make it more accurate as new information becomes available.

1905  First year of the Westinghouse "tank".  Motors were slightly smaller in diameter and shorter than in other years.  Blade had cast hub, at least on the early 12" models.  No cage badge at first(?) but the March 1905 American Electrician shows a cage badge.  Center cage ring is solid and the ends of S-wires can be seen and felt on the inside of the ring.  Cage struts were different than later ones.  Switch had no fiber cover on the bottom.  Trunnion was unique and without the strong rib soon added on the outside.  AC 12" tank offered with 2 speeds but the 16" model has one speed (ref: March 1905 American Electrician p.140).  1893 patent motor tag.  DC tanks also introduced this year.  Note:  All Westy tanks had a cage with a square back ring with no "reverse curve" segment at the bottom.  If you see a tank with the reverse curve cage, that cage came from a stamped steel Westy.

1906  AC motor was redesigned to have a slightly larger motor that remained until the end.  Struts attached differently to front of motor.  Trunnion modified in several ways, most noticeably with the addition of a strong rib on the outside.  Center ring remains solid but S-wires no longer visible on the inside of ring.  Fiber cover added over bottom of the switch.  16" tank becomes two speeds. 

1907  New base that is not as flat on the lower part as previously used.      New models this year rated at 111-120 volts, Styles 80421/80422, added to existing 100-110 volt Styles 60677/60679.

1908  Probably only small changes for '08.  1906 patent motor tag introduced but possibly later in 1908, maybe/ 1909?  Motor tag screwed on to motor instead of previous rivet attachment.  Center ring of the cage may have changed to rolled sheet brass instead of being solid, or this may have happened in 1909.  Addition of the three speed tank Styles 83239/83241 (or possibly in 1907 as the first ones used the 1893 patent motor tag) to the two Style series of two speed tanks.

1909  Introduction of first Westinghouse oscillating fan, the "vane oscillator".

1910  New cage badge probably this year- if not then 1911- with solid banner instead of cut out banner.  6 blade, two speed model tank added to the line or, possibly, in 1909 as the 6 blade was made with cut through as well as solid cage badges.

1911  Last year for the Westinghouse "tank".  Mechanical oscillator (double lever) introduced.  Vane oscillator continued.  Brass oil cups replaced with steel.

1912  For the 1912 season Westinghouse introduced their line of drawn steel fans.  The cast iron tank motor "double lever oscillator" and "vane oscillator" continued to be offered alongside the new drawn steel oscillator. (Ref: Electrical Review, March 2, 1912)

1913  This seems to be the last year for a Westinghouse tank motor fan to be offered.  The double lever oscillator was gone but the vane oscillator was still offered.  (Ref: Electrical Review and Western Electrician, March 22, 1913)


In addition to their own fans, Westinghouse tank fans were re-badged the following companies to sell:
-Western Electric ("Victor"-1st year 1908- then marked "Hawthorne")
-Robbins & Myers  1907 or 1908-1910
-Shedd
-Dayton (no cage badge was used)
-Federal
Possibly one other?

PATENTS relating to the Westy tank-
Fan Motor Adaptor-
http://www.google.com/patents?id=hi9xAAAAEBAJ&printsec=drawing&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Vane attachment-
http://www.google.com/patents?id=rSdEAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false
...to be continued, please check back.

6-23-11
A friend just emailed me the following photos of an unusual Westinghouse "tank" fan found recently in an antiques shop in Iowa.  He had seen the fan a while ago but the price was too high he said.  On this visit to the shop the fan's price was lowered and he was able to negotiate a satisfactory price which was very reasonable.




There are several things about this fan that are most unusual.  First, the motor is the earliest and unique "small motor" dating to 1905.  Larger vent holes, smaller diameter and depth of the motor, and unique struts that fit the curvature of the front of the motor.

Notice the cast blade hub used only on the first 12" tanks (and possibly the first 16" tanks though I have never seen one).  The cage is not supposed to have a badge on these early tanks.

The most interesting thing is the "REBUILT BY Queen City Electric Co, Chicago, ILL" motor tag which completely replaced the original Westinghouse motor tag an was riveted in place as was the original tag.  Could "TYPE 04" mean it's a 1904 motor?  The tank motor was introduced as a 1905 model but might have first been available late in 1904 although I have no confirmation of that.

Also, for you sharp eyed readers, note that the base is a later base used from 1907 onward with the steeper curve as the flat part of the base curves up into the neck.  The owner says this fan has three speeds although I am not sure how that happened unless the later base and/or switch was from a three speed tank model which was introduced in 1908 to supplement the existing two speed tank fans.

The trunnion is still the early style used into 1906.  Thank you Dick for sharing photos of your wonderful find.


Added 10/13/11
I'm a fan of original and unrestored early fans and the Westinghouse "tank" is one of my favorites.  They are fairly early, readily found, and not too expensive.  They are also simple and run well.

Not long ago I spotted this tank for sale on ebay, below, and was drawn to it because of the nice restoration and the fact that you don't see restored tanks too often.  That could be because the black japan used on the body was so durable that, usually, a good cleaning will bring back the old beauty.

This one, admittedly over-restored with urethane primer, black urethane, and clear coat, is still well done.  The restorer blued the original screws but did replace some with brass screws on the cage clips.  The original blued screws in those places were included in the auction.  I'm not sure that these fans looked quite so perfect when new but they were very shiny with highly polished brass blades.  The cage, I think was more of a bright brass, mill finish or might have been etched to clean it before lacquering and was cataloged as "dipped and lacquered".  I see no evidence on original fans that the cages had the same high mirror polish as the blades.


This "tank" is a 1907-08 model.  If you look closely you can see the repairs to reattach some of the cage S-wires to the back ring.  Westy cages of this style are pretty durable but you will often find some of the wires broken from the rear ring.





Style No. 80421, two speed, 111-120 volts

New reproduction fiber switch covers are available and just like the originals.
Only the 1905 tanks did not have a fiber switch cover or the center
 fixing screw for the cover attached to the bottom of the switch.
Fiber insulating disks are also available, precut, for use under the rotor's starting switch contacts.
Contact (Google search) Darryl Hudson for either.


Added 3-11-15

This wiring and direction sheet above is from a packet (below) that came with the 1905 Westinghouse fans.  20 wt. non-detergent oil is the normally recommended oil for fans but I note that it says to use a "heavy oil" in the instruction sheet.  30 wt. non-detergent might be fine.



48 comments:

  1. Nice blog, brother!

    ReplyDelete
  2. thank you very much i have 60677 and found your blog educational. appreciate your efforts good stuff!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Barry, I'm glad you were helped by what I have posted. Keep checking back as there should be quite a bit more information on tanks and other fans yet to be posted as time permits. Tanks are one of my favorites and I am still learning about them. I would love to get the dating down to an exact year for each change but that may never happen. The 60677 tank model was the longest in production along with the 16" 60679.
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
  4. Steve-I found this article very interesting.
    I am acollector of old stuff and happened to have a "Tank" fan in my collection. It is a 60677 Ser#28824. I wonder if these were actually built in Pittsburg, PA?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous, as you were submitting your comment I was just adding some information and photos of a restored Westinghouse tank. There is still a lot that I want to add to my existing posts before moving on to making some new posts.
    I have never thought about whether or not the Westinghouse fans were actually built in Pittsburg or that was just where the company headquarters was located. I would think, since Pittsburg was such a hub of the steel industry and other industrial activity that the fans would have been made right in Pittsburg. Wouldn't it be fun to take a time trip back to see how they were made!
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
  6. Steve,
    My 6-wing DC tank's motor tag does have the dates, unlike yours. Yours is an earlier specimen, that might be the reason.

    Next blog needs to be about Century skeletals!!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hi Fred,
    Century skeletals. An excellent choice for a new blog. I need to see if I can find the thread on the AFCA forum where I had posted a lot of information those wonderful Century 5 speed fans.

    I assume you mean your 6 wing Westy tank has the "micro date" on the motor tag? If so you have a very late tank model. I'd be happy to add some photos of your tank if you want to send me some.
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
  8. Great info for my inital education about "The Tank" . Trying to decide to sell or keep as we are down sizing. This was my grandparents who married in the early 1920's and struggled economically. Most likley given to them by my great garndparents. Serila number 115241 style # 60677. any thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
  9. Selling your tank will help you downsize but, considering that it has been part of the family for so many years, you want to think it out well. You don't want to have regrets later on. The tank models are relatively common and are also very good fans that can serve cooling duty today very well. Yours I think is a later c.1910-11 model. If you think a fan in your life would be useful you might want to keep it. But I certainly understand about downsizing, something I really need to do.
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
  10. Do you have any info on a tank model 115676A, 100-110 volt, serial 424685? The dates listed on the brass tag list the years through '10.
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  11. Your Style Westinghouse 115676A is a 16" "vane oscillator" introduced in 1909 and offered into 1913. The first year or two would have had the cut through cage badge followed by the solid badge. At the end of production the motor tag was made larger and held to the motor with four screws instead of the more common two screw tag. If your fan's motor tag has a "micro date" in parenthesis in one corner that will help date the fan to having been made after that date. Few Westy tank motor fans have the micro date however as the date seems to have been introduced very near the end of tank motor production. I have not covered the Westinghouse tank motor oscillators in my blog but hope to in the future. The vane oscillators are nice fans and fun to watch oscillate with the vane positioned out in front of the cage. It was one of the last wind driven oscillators on the market.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hi, wondering if you have any info on a fan I found in my Loft. I'm in London, England. The fan looks like the "Tank" style fan. The badge is very hard to read, but I managed to make it out. Westinghouse, Manchester England, Direct Current Motor, Volts 110 Serial Number 7699. It has 4 blades, there is no badge on the cage, just a plain circle. The wires on the cage are squiggly "s" shaped. Hope this is enough info. I would be interested to find out more about it. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Jennifer, I have to say that I am not familiar at all with any Westinghouse fans made outside of the US but it was common for many companies to have overseas divisions or to be associated with companies in other countries. If you will email me some photos of your fan from several angles and include a photo of the motor or data tag I might be able to come up with some information for you. You probably do not have DC current readily available but that should not be a problem if you would like to operate your fan. An inexpensive "bridge rectifier" attached inline with the power cord or stuck up under the fan's base will convert the AC current to a close form of DC and you can then run your fan from the AC house current if you have 110 or close AC voltage. email me some photos of your fan if you would: mcstevestephens at yahoo dot com

      Delete
  13. MY fan has style #115700 serial #88758 and I broke 1 of the thumb screws can you tell me what is the thread size on this, I need a new one ,Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  14. Steve..just got my first "Tank"....unrestored and in good shape..along with a bunch of fans from a collector moving to Fla...At first when i started it..it would arc inside the front of the motor...and run but not up to speed...with more arcing. I vacuumed and blew air into the motor...cleaned exterior with PB blaster (drier-loosener-cleaner fluid)...some may have shpritzed into the motor...vacuumed again...changed oil in the oil tubes...cleaned them and wicks..put in synthetic oil(Red Line gear oil 75-90w this has worked great on my other fans..they fly and have long spin down)....the fan runs strong now...both on low and high...it will arc a little bit when starting but notat all when running and runs smooth and cool...cant feel any play in front bearing. Is the arcing from this centrifugal starter gizmo..and can i adjust it by taking off the front cover..or should i just run the fan this way...thanks for all the info...I beleive this is a small 1910 as the logo plate is solid brass and black paint....Nick J. Cornwall CT.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Hi Nick,
    You got yourself a nice fan there and it sounds like you have it running well. The arcing inside the front of the motor is, indeed, probably due to dirty contacts on the centrifugal starting switch located in the rear of the motor. Removing the front motor plate and rotor will give you access to the switch contacts on the end of the rotor and rear of the motor housing. Clean them well and make sure the small springs are in good condition. I would recommend what the fan makers did for lubrication, a straight 20 wt. non-detergent motor oil. Your Redline may be fine however although gear oil is formulated differently, I would think, from oil meant for motor bearings.
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
  16. Hi Steve, I found a unrestored westinghouse fan with style number 457678 B I want to knbow if you can help find the manufacture year. Also it would be great if you can give a price range for this type of fan since I'm stating my collection, apperently the only problem it has is it doesn't oscillate.

    thanks
    julio

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hi Julio,
    You have a 10" stamped steel Westinghouse, 3 speed, 4 blade, shaded pole motor fan. How do I know this? A little help from a friend of mine who has compiled a list of "Style Numbers" with associated data. To date your fan to within several years find the tiny "micro date" in one corner of your fan's motor tag. It will be terribly tiny and inside parenthesis. That date is likely when a new batch of tags was ordered by Westinghouse for the next several years of production making your fan date to after that date and before the next tag date appeared (several years later usually).

    The 10" Westys are somewhat uncommon and, I think, were made starting somewhere around 1917 and continuing for many years; till when I don't know. They are not worth a lot and it is hard to give a value without seeing the fan. As a guess maybe $35-100. When you say it does not oscillate do you mean the oscillator is broken or missing some part or that the fan is not an oscillating model? Finding parts could be problematical. Stamped steel Westinghouses are not the ideal fan to start with. They are very good fans but hard to put new headwires on since the stators often have to be removed, not an easy task.

    My preferences and recommendations for collecting are with the cast iron fans as they are usually easier to work on. They are also usually older and more expensive. A good GE prior to 1925, almost any Emerson to the earlier 1950s, Westinghouse prior to 1912 or R&M prior to c.1917 would be a good choice. Have you visited the AFCA website and forums yet? A good place for more information: http://www.fancollectors.org

    Good luck with your new collection. Fans are fun and interesting but watch those often inflated prices on ebay. Many fans have starting prices (and some are selling for) two to three or more times on ebay for what they can be bought from an AFCA meet or other collector. I highly recommend joining the AFCA and attending Fanfair (July 16-20 in St, Louis) or a regional meet. Registration is not necessary to go to an AFCA event although, to take advantage of all that Fanfair has to offer, registration is required. You can go to look and buy from the many collectors but not at the auction. There are usually around 1000 fans more or less; never counted them. But no place will you see more fans than at Fanfair. 2014 I think it will be in Indianapolis with a visit to the AFCA museum which is open to the public most M-F days and is free. Info: http://www.fanimation.com/museum/gallery.html

    ReplyDelete
  18. Our fan has model # 64848B. I didn't see any comments about it. What do you know about this model?

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hi Anne, as time passes, and when I get motivated to add more to the blog which I do intend to do, I might get to your fan. So far I have concentrated on earlier fans and those primarily made of cast iron. Your drawn steel construction Westinghouse was the first fan to use that construction which saved weight and made the fan easier to move around as well as cut shipping costs and materials. From what I can find I am almost certain you have a c.1914 Westinghouse 12" oscillator four blade fan with a 100-110 voltage range. The drawn (stamped) steel Westys were introduced in 1912 and yours would seem to be a slightly updated model from the first 1912 model. They are excellent fans but are not always in favor with many collectors due to the difficulty of removing the stator windings should the fan need to have the head wire replaced (although yours is easier if need be to replace the head wire than with the 1912 model. With so many different fan manufacturers in the early days plus a vast range of different models and variations, it would be impossible to cover all fans so I try to write about the ones that I find of most interest or have knowledge about.
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
  20. Hi Steve, I would be interested to see your reply to Jennifer Okanay above as I too have come across a similar fan with a Manchester label on.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think my reply went to Jennifer by email regarding her post back on Oct. 14, 2012. I checked my emails but did not keep a record of my response or remember what photos she might have sent me. Sorry.

      Delete
  21. I find you site and info very interesting. I have a Westinghouse brass 98926A fan in very good condition. Dated Jun 29 1909 How can I find the value and where would I list this for sale? Any info would be helpful

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Chuck, you have a fairly early 8" all brass Westinghouse commutator motor fan that generally had a black oxide finish but other finishes were also available such as mottled or polished copper, and polished or brushed brass. These are nice running three speed fans with a light weight cage (heavier S-wires on the latest models) which is often found broken and/or with some wires missing. If your fan is complete, original, in good condition, and runs well it can be worth around $250 or more. The 8" model came out in 1908 and was made through c.1912. Shown in this 1908 Electrical World: http://books.google.com/books?id=fG5EAQAAIAAJ&dq=Comparative%20Tests%20of%20Different%20types%20of%20fans%201908&pg=PA530#v=onepage&q=Comparative%20Tests%20of%20Different%20types%20of%20fans%201908&f=false

      I'd recommend considering ebay with lots of good photos and a complete description to sell your fan or you can list it on the Antique Fan Collector's Association website at no charge- link near the top of my blog. Thank you for your compliment.

      Delete
  22. Hi, Chuck! I'm Rick "C-6" Delair, and I collect light bulbs, fixtures and street lights, amongst other electrical epherma. Also, 2 stroke gas and diesel engines. I have a Westy Model 60677 that is missing the cage and blade. Also one of the pressed steel cage clips and screw. I found this in a basement of a house about 15 years ago. I had it at the Edison Tech Center www.edisontechcenter.org and would like to get it all together and running. It is a 100-110 volt model, AC motor. It was missing the power cord, and I plan on inatslling a "Type C" twisted pair cloth cord, a genuine vintage one, as I have alot of this cord I use on old flxtures, etc. I may even install a screw in type of cap (plug)! I imagine this old gal hasn't run in at least 50 years. If it's like most Westy stuff it will run great, as they always made the best lighting and electrical stuff! Where can I get the cage, blade, and cage clip/screw? I am going to see if the motor runs soon. I brought it home from The Edison to do some testing on the motor and install the new cord. Since Westys are reverse rotation, I cannot use a spare GE blade I have. Thanks! Rick "C-6" Delair!

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hi Rick, I am not Chuck but will try to help you. I don't know where you live but ebay might turn up a blade or cage for you and maybe even the strut clip. Another way would be to put a post on our Antique Fan Collectors Association forum (see link near top of my blog) in the buy-sell-trade forum. None of the parts you seem to need may be easy to find so patience and persistence may pay off. You have an option for the cage; you can use a brass cage from a later stamped steel Westy fan which will be different in one or two ways: It will have a reverse curve at the bottom of the cage and, unless you have a later 60677 dating to 1910-11, the later cage will not have the cut through cage badge of the earlier tanks. But that later cage will get your fan looking pretty decent if not entirely correct. I think the blade will have to be a tank blade as the later Westy stamped steel fan blades I think have a smaller diameter motor shaft and, even if bored out straight, there might not be enough wall thickness on the hub for the set screw to seat safely. To my knowledge the tanks did not come with a power cord so any period correct twisted pair would look good. They also would have used a screw-in attachment plug. I would recommend that you remove the rear cover of the motor before operating it, pull out the rotor and clean the start switch contact on the front of the rotor as well as the brass or copper contacts in the front of the motor housing. While you are at it clean the bearings and the tiny oil return holes by the bearings that return oil to the oil cups, clean or renew the felt wicks and fill the cups about 2/3 full with 20 wt. non-detergent oil. Also check to see that none of the red fiber insulating material on the rotor is beginning to crack or get spun off from the rotor. I have a few tanks where that has happened and it made me wonder why red fiber pieces were being spit from the vents of the motor. Other than that you should be good to go. Enjoy your wonderful new (old) tank motor.

    ReplyDelete
  24. I have a Westinghouse style 1361357; catalog 10-pa; serial jt oscillating fan. it isn't in good shape, but i like it and want to get it running again. biggest immediate problem seem to be a need for a new power cord and replacing the cord between the base housing and the motor. i can't even figure out how to get the base plate off to expose the wiring. anybody got any suggestions for a newcomer who just wants to keep an old fan because it looks cool?

    ReplyDelete
  25. I think I have figured out what Westinghouse fan you have and think the Style No. is 1381357 from c.1946 and it's a 10" fan. I have one of the same fans and took a look at it but neither can I understand how the base plate is removed. I think you may have to remove the chromed trim piece on top of the front of the base and that might expose a screw to remove the base plate. Great, if that is what needs to be done, but I don't see how to remove that chrome piece so I am right where you are- stuck. My best suggestion would be to make a post on the Antique Fan Collectors Assoc. "Pre-1950 forum" and see if someone has experience with your model fan and what you want to do. Be sure to post a few photos of your fan as most people will not be able to know what a fan is by numbers. To add more than one photo just "reply" to your first post/photo. Good luck. Those are nice fans and I have seen a few that were restored/customized with a polished body (it's aluminum) and the blade and cage painted black and one blade a dark blue. A friend has one like yours and loves it even after owning some old restored brass blade and cage fans. I have a liking for pre-1920 fans and one reason is that one can usually easily see how things come apart. There is a direct link to the AFCA on the front page near the top of my blog.
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Steve - I appreciate the quick reply and will follow your advice. Thanks again.

      Bud

      Delete
    2. Steve - I did figure out how to get the bottom off. There are three 'buttons' on the bottom that the unit sits on. In the center of each, and covered by grime, is a small bolt that screws into the housing. Unscrew these three and the base plate come off. And that chrome thing is a snap in piece.

      Bud

      Delete
  26. I have an old fan that I'd like to know more about. who can help me?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Nathan, one suggestion would be to post on our Antique Fan Collectors Association (link near top of this blog) forum and include sufficient photos so people will know what you have. Also try to ask specific questions that you might have. The other suggestion is to send me your email address and I will get back to you so you can send me some photos and questions. You can contact me by the "CONTACT ME" form near the top right of the blog. Unless your fan is of the era that my blog deals with I may not know much about it. I love the early fans but don't get involved with fans after about the mid 1930s.
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
  28. I have a model 115675A but there's a few things I don't understand. 1-it has 6 blades unlike all the others with same model number has 4. Also the cord on it is 28 feet long, would that be a replaced cord? It would be nice if you could help. Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  29. Hi Scott, I think I can answer your question pretty easy; the Style No. you have, 115675A and a 12" vane oscillator, was built as a 4-wing model. That information comes from a copy I made from an original 1911 Westinghouse catalog. I was looking for a 6-wing vane but none to see in that catalog. I know that 6-wing vanes were made at least through 1913 and the 6-wing model had been added by those later years. I would have to say that someone in the past has switched the 4-wing blade on your fan for a 6-wing blade. That can be hard on the motor and it is recommended not to put a 6-wing blade on a 4 pole high speed motor like your Style 115675A is. The 6-pole motor runs about ⅔ the speed of the 4 pole and the 6-wing blade is designed for the lower speed but with greater pitch. Overheating can occur with the wrong blade on your motor. The easy solution is to replace your blade with the proper 4 wing blade. One other possibility is that the easily changed motor tag was changed in the past, maybe due to the original having cracked or ??. You can check the RPM of your motor with a strobe. 4 pole would run at 1300 and 1500 RPM for a true 114675 and about ⅔ of that amount for the pole motor. A 28 foot long power cord would seem to be so the fan could either be moved around a very large room or shop or used outdoors or where a close by electrical outlet was. Most early fans were sold without a power cord so the user could put on the length needed to reach the closest light socket for power as there were very few wall outlets until after the teens. Most early fans that came with a power cord had somewhere around 8-10 feet of cord. The power cords of the c.1911 era of your fan were mostly cloth sheathed twisted pair cotton covered wire and not too many have survived until now.

    ReplyDelete
  30. anyone know what a 12 inch brass 4 blade with black cage appears to be 3 speed oc - 5067-2 Style 16262 oc Westinghouse fan - plate is screwed in not bolted ??? Need to know what the value is of this beauty
    needs to be restored

    ReplyDelete
  31. Could you help me with the value of my 12 inch 4 brass blade Westinghouse fan - plate is screwed on not bolted 5067-2 and Style 16262OC Cage is not brass came from old estate where Items where dated 1800's and early 1900's Thank you I cannot find any of these numbers anywhere ?? Has a serial number as well - needs to be restored but I may sell it ??

    ReplyDelete
  32. I have some questions regarding my Westinghouse 12 inch 4 brass blade fan OC 16262 ?? Cannot find this model number - I think the patten says 1906 can you give me a value on this fan?? I dont know how to attach a pic here

    ReplyDelete
  33. Hi Jill, regarding your two comments above, the fan you have, it looks like Style 162620 which, according to a copy made by a good friend, now deceased, of Westinghouse fans for which he had an affinity to, it is a 12" non-oscillator 100-115 volt with a commutator and brushes for 25 cycles instead of the usual 60 cycle wall current we have in the USA. If that is not correct please use the CONTACT ME form near the top of a page in my blog. Send me your email address and I will repond so you can email me some photos of your fan which would make it easier to assess what you have. A photo of the motor tag would be helpful and, if some data is not readable, write out the best you can what you think it says. I am curious is your fan is, in fact, a 25 cycle motor which would probably preclude using the fan on 60 cycles. My 330 cycle Century fan runs well on 60 cycles but without much power and the motor gets too hot after about 15 minutes so I don't use it. It's possible that your motor was rewound for 60 cycles; I have such a Westinghouse but it does not run to see if it would work ok on 60 cycles which I'm sure it would. Value would depend upon condition which one would have to see photos as well as the running condition. Checking eBay for SOLD items would probably be the best way to find comparable values. I don't follow prices to be able to give you a figure but it could be worth, perhaps, in the $100 to $250 range. The steel cage replaced brass cages in Feb 1917. Look on the motor tag in the lower left corner for a very tiny "micro date" in parenthesis; that would be the date a batch of motor tags was ordered I think and your fan would date to within a few years of that date.
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
  34. I have a tank that has a tag that says style 8042 sn: 345731 is there a number missing?
    Hutch

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, the last digit is missing or stamped so shallow that you did not see it or it may have been missed altogether as is the case on an early Emerson PI-241 which is clearly stamped PI-24. Your fan would be either an 80421 (12") or 80422 (16") model. Those models differ from Styles 60677 and 60679 in having a higher voltage rating for your model; 111-120 volts vs 100-110 volts.

      Delete
  35. Steve, Thanks for the fast response. I used a scope and you are correct it is a very lightly stamped 1 it looked like a scratch with the eye (well mine anyway). Also what is the correct oil used in the oil reservoirs?

    ReplyDelete
  36. From an original Westinghouse tank instruction sheet from 1905: "Before shipment enough lubricant is placed in the oil cups to last for a considerable time. This should be replenished with a heavy oil, if, upon inspection the bearings prove to be dry."

    Heavy Oil, hmmm. What we fan collectors use and recommend is a 20 wt. non-detergent oil although we use (and I do) a lot of Zoom-Spout Turbine Oil which is a 10wt. I have even heard that 30 wt. non-detergent oil can be good for motors with somewhat worn bearings. I don't know what "heavy oil" would have been in 1905 but do know that some fan manufacturers recommend and used vasoline which, I believe, was pretty much the same as today's vaseline. Anyway, the answer to your question would be to use Zoom-Spout or other 20 wt. non-detergent including 3-in-1 with BLUE on the can (not red) or even 20 wt. non-detergent car motor oil from the auto parts store. Just make sure it is NON-detergent, not a multi-viscosity like 10W-30 etc.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hello I have a style 457678 it's only a 1 Speed Oscillating, I'm hoping that not being a 457678 B or C means this one is older and more rare :) any ideas?

    ReplyDelete
  38. I'm sorry, I don't know all the Westinghouse Style numbers and don't know what fan you have without seeing it. If you use the CONTACT ME form near the top of my blog and include your email I can get back to you so you can then send me some photos. I am thinking your fan may be from the late teens or early 20s. It's a 10" model and probably an uncommon fan but probably not valuable. The lack of a suffix letter probably indicates it's an early model in the series

    ReplyDelete
  39. I recently purchased a Westinghouse 16" 6 blade fan with model number 177050. It has a knife handle with what looks like 3 speeds. Am working to rewire the fan, but in overall pretty good condition. I can't find much history on this one. Do you know anything about this model?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Hi Dan,
    If you use the CONTACT ME at the top right of this page and send me your email address I will get back to you with my email and you can send me some photos of your fan. There are too many numbers on fans to learn every one. I stick with the early fans with shorter numbers that are easier to learn. Once I see your photos I may be able to give some more information.

    ReplyDelete
  41. I have a 2 heaters build date 3-17-41
    Style# 1103872
    How would I know what they are worth

    ReplyDelete
  42. Hi Unknown and other readers,
    I do get a lot of messages asking for information but want to let readers know that I do not put values on fans and this blog it pretty much limited to pre-1920 fans. My interests and knowledge about fans after that time is very limited or none and I suggest you post on the Antique Fan Collectors Association website and forum for the mid-century fans. To "Unknown": I don't know anything about heaters and suggest that you look on eBay to see if you can find similar heaters. I like to help readers but there are limits to what I know and can answer. I pretty much stick to fans of the 1890 to 1920 period.

    ReplyDelete

I welcome comments, corrections. or new information.